what comes out of an amp's "Effect Loop Send"?

[J D Sauser]

What comes out of an amp's "Effect Loop SEND":
- the same as what comes out the guitar?

I ask because I would love to use that "out/send" NOT to go to an effect box, but to go into a second amp without having to split the signal at the guitar or volume pedal (and yes, I know some volume pedals have two "out"... the issue is, I don't used a volume pedal.).


Here's what I am trying to do:
I want to run one amp totally DRY... no reverb, no delay, no nothing. And a second one with all the "junk".
So, instead of splitting my out at the guitar and run to both amps with 2 cables, I am hoping I could run into the main amp and use the EFX loop "Send" to run to the second amp. Can I?

Thanks!... J-D.

[Bill Leff]

You want an A/B/Y pedal for this such as the Radial BigShot.

[J D Sauser]

You want an A/B/Y pedal for this such as the Radial BigShot.

Thanks Bill.
- Do I need that even thou it is not my intention so "switch" back and forth?
- Am I right to assume that these boxes don't just "switch" but somehow don't cut the signal "strength" in two 50% signals?
- still the question remains, can I not just use the "FX loop SEND" to continue to the second amp? Is that signal dry or "wet" or does the first amp expect a signal back and the whole thing fizzles when it doesn't?

Thanks!... J-D.

[Rich Ertelt]

FX loop, in any amp I have had or heard of, is post the preamp stage. So not what comes out of the guitar, what comes , out of the preamp - all the amplification and tone shaping the preamp does. That is the point. You want to put fx, like reverb, modulation, etc. After the preamp.

It is usually line level, though many have adjustments - a send and return level of some kind, so you can put pedals in, which are instrument level.

Any adjustment you make on the preamp is going to effect that FX out sound.

[James P Mitchell]

Hey JD,

FX loop sends are wired differently in different amps. Some of them won't make any signal if you plug something into the effects loop send but nothing into the return. Some of them are designed so you can plug something into just the send, leave the return empty, and it will still pass signal to the power amp. I think this is a preferable wiring scheme for exactly the reason you're dealing with.

I've run stereo amps many times in the config you're looking at. So, a couple details:

Firstly, see if you amp will even pass sound with something plugged into just loop send.

Secondly, know that you are sending a preamp'd signal out. So amp 1's controls will affect the sound of both amp 1 and amp 2. Thus, in an ideal world you are going to send the fx loop send of amp 1 to the fx loop *return* of amp 2. That takes amp 2's preamp controls out of the mix (although usually master volume/presence still works). That being said, if amp 2 doesn't have an fx loop, you can still just run it into the input of that amp. I've done that many times as well.

Next, you'll either hear a ground loop hum or you won't. If you do, it might not even be that bad. If it is really bad, you need some some or isolator.

Finally, you need to check the phase. Play a low note with amp 1 on, and *slowly* bring up the volume of amp 2. If the volume and bass steadily increases, you're in phase. If the volume dips downwards as amp 2 gets to similar level as amp 1, the bass gets thinner, and the stereo image gets wider (disappears from the middle of your head) - you're out of phase. You need to swap the speaker leads of one of the amps, put a phase inverting device between them, or get an isolator that can flip phase.

Good luck!

[Dave Grafe]

In general the effects loop send and return are inserted between the preamp out and power amp in. Whether this is before or after the amp reverb varies from brand to brand.

[J D Sauser]

Thanks to all who answered.

Meanwhile I did something, more as a joke to myself and took the question to ChatGPT.

The answers from this thing are so astonishing that I am posting this here:

on a guitar amplifier, can the effect loop "send" signal be used to plug into a second amp's input plug?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, you can use the "send" jack of the effects loop on a guitar amplifier to plug into the input of a second amplifier — and this is a common technique in certain setups.
Here's what it does:
The "send" jack outputs the preamp signal from your first amp, usually before it hits the power amp.
Plugging that "send" into the input of a second amp means you’re using the first amp as a preamp and the second amp as a power amp + speaker, or as a second full amp (depending on how you plug it in).
Common Use Cases
1. Running a wet/dry rig
Dry signal goes to the first amp (used for clean or distorted tone).
Send is routed to time-based effects (like reverb/delay), then to the second amp, creating a stereo or wet/dry effect.
2. Slaving one amp’s preamp into another amp
If you love the preamp tone of amp A, but want to run it through amp B’s power section and speakers, you’d use amp A’s send into amp B’s effects return (not the input — more on this below).
Important Considerations
Safe and Works — Plugging "Send" → Second amp's input
This is safe and works, though the signal may be a bit hotter than a guitar signal, because it's a line-level signal.
Second amp's input may color the tone, because it will apply its own preamp stage.
This is fine if you're looking for a combined tone or second amp flavor.
Cleaner signal path — Plug "Send" → Second amp's effects return
This bypasses the second amp's preamp and just uses its power amp and speaker.
Useful if you want the pure tone of the first amp’s preamp to be amplified by the second amp without coloration.
Volume Levels
The send is usually line level (hotter than a guitar pickup signal).
If the second amp expects an instrument-level input, it might overdrive it or distort early.
Start with volumes low, and adjust accordingly.
Summary:
Setup Plug Send Into… Result
Wet/Dry or Dual Amp Rig Second amp's input Both amps run their own tone stacks
Use First Amp's Preamp Second amp's return Uses only second amp’s power amp and speaker
Let me know your gear setup and what sound you're going for — I can help optimize your rig.
You said:
what I am trying to do, is to run two combo amps from the same one guitar:
One amp to be set "dry" without effects and the second one to be effects only (like a surround sound), so that I have both, the dry sound and the "bling" sound separately.
ChatGPT said:
Great — you're describing a wet/dry rig, which is a powerful and very popular setup for achieving clear, articulate guitar tones (dry amp) alongside spacious, ambient effects (wet amp). It's especially great for stereo depth, recording, or live performances.
Your Goal:
Amp 1 (Dry): Pure guitar tone — no time-based effects (just raw amp).
Amp 2 (Wet): Effects only (like reverb/delay/modulation), without the dry signal.
How to Set This Up
Basic Wet/Dry Setup Using Effects Loop:
You’ll Need:
Your guitar
Two combo amps
A stereo effects pedal (or individual delay/reverb/mod pedals with stereo out)
Cables
Step-by-Step:
Guitar → Amp 1 input
This is your main dry amp.
Leave effects loop engaged if needed, or just run it normally.
Amp 1 Effects Send → Input of Delay/Reverb/Modulation pedals
This pulls the post-preamp signal from Amp 1 (great for effects clarity).
Effect Pedals Output → Amp 2 input or FX Return
If your pedal has stereo out, send one to Amp 2, and optionally back into Amp 1's return for stereo.
If using mono output, send it just to Amp 2’s input.
Important: Most delays/reverbs allow you to set the mix to 100% wet (see tip below).
Result:
Amp 1 = DRY ONLY (pure guitar tone, no delay/reverb/mod).
Amp 2 = WET ONLY (just the delayed/reverbed signal from Amp 1).
This gives your tone separation and depth. Live or recorded, this cuts through incredibly well.
Tips for Best Results
Set effects to "wet only":
If your pedals allow it (like on many delays/reverbs), set the mix to 100% wet so you're not duplicating the dry signal in Amp 2.
If the effect has a “Kill Dry” or “Wet Only” mode — enable it.
This ensures Amp 2 has only the reverb/delay/mod, not the dry guitar.
Use stereo pedals if you want stereo imaging
Many modern reverb/delay pedals (like Strymon, Eventide, Boss, etc.) have stereo out.
You could run Left out to Amp 1 and Right out to Amp 2 for true stereo.
Alternate Option (if no FX loop):
If your Amp 1 doesn’t have an effects loop, you can do this instead:
Guitar → ABY splitter
A → Amp 1 (Dry)
B → Delay/Reverb Pedals → Amp 2 (Wet)
This works, but the effects will receive an instrument-level signal (not line-level from FX loop), and any drive from Amp 1 won’t be passed to effects — so it's better if you're running distortion pedals before the splitter, not amp distortion.
Gear You Might Consider:
If you need routing tools:
ABY pedal (Lehle, Radial, JHS, etc.)
Line isolators or ground loop eliminators (to reduce hum if needed)
Mixer pedals like the Boss LS-2, GigRig, etc.
Summary
Component Function
Amp 1 DRY (no delay/reverb)
Amp 2 WET (delay/reverb only)
FX Loop "Send" Sends preamp tone to FX
FX 100% Wet Mix Only processed sound in Amp 2
Let me know what pedals and amps you’re using — I can walk you through the exact patching.
You said:
so, the fact that the Effect Loop SEND is already a pre-amplified signal, will not cause issues when plugged into the second amp's normal "guitar"-input?
ChatGPT said:
Excellent follow-up — and you’re right to be cautious here.
Short Answer:
Yes, you can plug the Effects Loop Send into the guitar input of a second amp, and it won’t damage anything.
However, there are some important tone and level considerations to keep in mind.
What’s Really Happening?
Effects Loop “Send” Jack:
Sends out a line-level signal, which is hotter than a guitar’s instrument-level signal.
Comes after the preamp, so it's already been amplified, EQ’d, possibly distorted, etc.
Guitar Input on Second Amp:
Designed for a much weaker instrument-level signal (your pickups).
Has its own gain stage (and sometimes tone shaping) to boost that weak signal.
So What Happens If You Plug SEND → GUITAR INPUT?
It will work, and many players do this.
But:
The signal going into the second amp will be:
Much hotter than expected.
More prone to overdriving the second amp’s input stage.
Possibly less clean or colored due to passing through two preamps.
If your second amp has no gain control or a sensitive front-end, it might sound:
Too loud or compressed
Slightly distorted even when "clean"
Tonally colored (which might be good or bad, depending on taste)
How to Improve This Setup
Best Practice Option: Use Amp 2's FX RETURN (if it has one)
This bypasses its preamp.
You’re feeding a line-level signal into the power amp only, which is ideal.
You’ll preserve the exact tone of your original amp’s preamp and effects.
If You're Stuck with Only a Guitar Input on Amp 2:
You can still use it, but:
Turn the Gain down on Amp 2.
Use a volume pedal or attenuator between the FX Send and Amp 2’s input to tame the signal.
Or use a re-amping box to drop the line-level signal back to instrument level.
Bottom Line:
Plugging FX Send into… Will it work? Best Use Case Notes
Guitar input (Amp 2) Yes OK if you're careful with levels May overdrive input slightly
FX Return (Amp 2) Best Cleanest tone, no double preamp coloration Ideal setup
If you tell me which amps you’re using (model names), I can give a wiring diagram and recommend which jacks to use specifically.
You said:
I am going to use a Blackstar ID Core 100 as the main combo amp. It has an Effect Loop send (& return on the back) as the dry amp. It will be sat in the middle of the setup on stage.

I will use a Peavey ProFEX II (late 1990's), which is an Effect Programmer and PRE-amp which can create a "Stereo"-effects and thus has two (L&R) outputs which go into a stereo power amp and from there into two speakers which I will setup wide left and right of the aforementioned "dry" amp.
The Peavy ProFEX II is programmed to create a slightly pitch shifted "stereo" with ever so slight chorus and a snappy one-pop delay... it is "WET" only... so really just "surround" sound... akin to some haze or an aura of width, depth and hall.

Since I need to use the Peavy ProFEX II's PRE AMP "brains" to create that I am temped by using you suggestion # 3, using a device scaling the Blackstar's Effect Send signal back down to a pickup's signal to feed it into the ProFEX, OR to split the signal AT the guitar and run one line each direct to the Blackstar Combo Amp and separately to the ProFEX II... what worries me about that is "splitting" an already weak signal in two... will that cut that signal's strength down to 50%?

ChatGPT said:
Thanks for the detailed setup — you're building a fantastic wet/dry/wet rig with some clever use of vintage gear. Let's walk through this carefully, because you're right on the edge of technical perfection — and you're asking all the right questions.
Your Goal Recap:
Blackstar ID:Core 100 — Dry amp (center stage)
Peavey ProFEX II — Wet-only stereo effects processor
Stereo power amp + speakers — Wide L & R wet signal
You want your guitar signal to feed both, but in a controlled, clean, and no tone-loss way.
Two Routing Options You're Considering
Option 1: FX Loop Send → ProFEX II Input
This is the best signal quality path — but may overload the ProFEX input unless managed.
Option 2: Split guitar signal at the source → to Blackstar & ProFEX
This avoids the hot signal issue but risks signal loss, impedance mismatch, and tone degradation.
Let’s break them down.

Option 1: Blackstar FX Send → ProFEX II Input
Your original idea with signal attenuation if needed.
Pros:
Preserves the dry signal path through the Blackstar (your preamp tone).
Sends line-level, post-preamp signal to the ProFEX — great for ambient FX.
FX Send is isolated and buffered, so it won't load down the guitar signal.
Cons:
The ProFEX is expecting instrument-level or maybe slightly boosted line-level, not a hot FX loop send.
Might clip or distort unless padded down.
Solution: Use a Re-Amp Box or Passive Attenuator
This will safely bring the FX Send signal down to instrument level so the ProFEX can handle it properly.
Devices that can do this:
Radial ProRMP (re-amping box)
Palmer DACCAPO
DIY pad: You can build or buy a passive -10dB or -20dB pad with ¼" jacks.
This is the cleanest and safest solution for your exact gear chain.
Option 2: Split Guitar Signal Before the Amps
Guitar → Splitter → [Blackstar] and [ProFEX]
Your concern is 100% valid.
Pros:
Both devices get instrument-level signals.
Clean split from the source.
Cons:
Passive splitting (e.g. Y-cable) halves your signal and increases the load — this can suck tone and reduce clarity on both paths.
Impedance mismatch can occur, especially with older gear like the ProFEX II.
Solution if you go this way:
Use an active buffered splitter — NOT a Y-cable.
Examples:
Lehle P-Split
Radial Twin-City ABY
JHS Buffered Splitter
Boss LS-2 (can also double as signal blender/router)
These isolate, buffer, and preserve tone while sending to two different inputs. Some have ground lift and phase reverse, which can be helpful too.
Compare Both Options:
Feature FX Send → ProFEX (Option 1) Split Guitar → Both (Option 2)
Signal level compatibility Needs attenuation Naturally matched (with buffer)
Preserves dry tone chain 100% (if buffered split)
Risk of tone loss If overloading ProFEX input If passively split
Best signal quality With re-amp box With active splitter
Requires extra gear Yes – attenuator/re-amp box Yes – active splitter
Final Recommendation for Your Exact Rig:
Best Quality:
Use the FX Send from the Blackstar, and feed it into the ProFEX via a re-amping device or line attenuator.
That way, your guitar tone is fully shaped by the Blackstar.
Your ProFEX only receives a processed signal, and won’t double up your dry signal.
Then, from the ProFEX stereo outs → stereo power amp → L/R speakers.
You get dry center, wet wide stereo — exactly what you're going for.
Bonus Tip: Tidy Grounding
If you hear hum when running this setup, it’s likely a ground loop. Use:
Isolated outputs (on splitters or DI boxes)
Or a ground lift switch
Radial and Lehle are leaders in clean stage signal isolation.
Would you like a simple diagram or signal flow chart to visualize your exact layout? I can draw one up quickly.
You said:
I am impressed.
I am inclined to give the Active "Buffered" Splitter option a first try, and here is why:
I seems to promise to give me a "from scratch" signal to both amps without any alterations from the first amp's Effect Loop's send signal.

Thank you very much!...

ChatGPT said:
You're very welcome — and your thinking is spot on.
Going with an active buffered splitter as your first approach is a smart, flexible, and low-risk move. Here’s why that choice is especially wise in your case:

Why the Buffered Splitter First Makes Sense
Pure signal path
You’re sending your guitar’s raw tone to both the Blackstar and the ProFEX — unaltered.
Perfect if you want to retain the character of each unit’s preamp (Blackstar for dry, ProFEX for wet aura).
No gain staging headaches
You avoid the FX loop “hot signal” issue.
No need for reamp boxes, pads, or guesswork on levels.
Maximum flexibility
You can always add effects, gain stages, or routing later.
Future upgrades (e.g., stereo delays or routing pedals) integrate easily with a buffered splitter at the front.
Protects tone
A quality buffered splitter ensures no tone loss, correct impedance matching, and signal strength remains stable.
Quick Gear Notes for Splitter Shopping
If you're looking for suggestions, here are rock-solid options with isolation and ground lift (important for hum prevention):
Pedal Features Notes
Radial Twin-City Buffered, isolated, ground lift, phase Pro-level, reliable
Lehle P-Split II Transformer isolated, passive, hi-fi Pure tone, no power needed
JHS Buffered Splitter Simple, clean buffer Great tone integrity
Boss LS-2 Flexible routing & level control Also works as line mixer or AB box
Suggested Signal Chain
Guitar
│
▼
Buffered Splitter
├──→ Blackstar ID:Core 100 (dry center)
└──→ Peavey ProFEX II (wet only)
↓
Stereo Power Amp
↓ ↓
Left Cab Right Cab
Final Thought
You’re building a professional-grade wet/dry/wet rig using thoughtful signal paths and clever gear choices. That’s how tone is not just made — but engineered.
If you ever want help dialing in levels, pedal order, or even phase alignment between your dry and wet amps, just drop back in.

Rock on — you’ve got this.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

Chat Gpt sounds like a typical gear nerd. Who knew?

[J D Sauser]

Chat Gpt sounds like a typical gear nerd. Who knew?

I had ChatGPT "work" on my speaker question (which is related to this thread) too, and since I asked "for Pedal Steel Guitar" it asked "if E9th or C6th" and when I confirmed C6th it asked if I used a high G or E, D and then proceded to compare the two 12" speakers I asked it to based on that and the fact that C6th goes way down from E9th. I was just speechless.

Evidently it learns. And the solution "options" it gave me, and the one I selected which it then went deeper into, which reconfirmed my thinking in the selection gave me all I need to order the parts I need to set up the "rig"... most is already here... just waiting on one of the two 12" speakers.

You have to take all that advice with "a grain of salt"... and check it doing your own research.

... J-D.

[Dave Grafe]

I wonder how many kilowatt hours of power that gobbled up

[J D Sauser]

I wonder how many kilowatt hours of power that gobbled up

I’m pretty sure it’s the animated graphics and sound creations that are sucking up all the juice. My laptop fans kick into afterburner mode the second it’s asked to manipulate video — like a hairdryer in a hurricane. Meanwhile, that “research” you’re impressed with? It lasts about a split second per question. It’s not “thinking” — it’s surfing the web, forums, and whatever else it can leech off faster than a teenager on TikTok.

But yeah, this is going to change the world faster than even the so-called “intellectual elite” predicted just months ago. And while I’m on board with the idea that people who don’t use it will get eaten alive — passed, replaced, and chewed up like a cheap steak — I don’t believe for a second that my abstaining will slow it down enough to make a difference. The train’s left the station, baby, and I’m standing on the tracks waving like an idiot.

And still… I think it’s going to eat all of us eventually. Or worse, make us eat each other — which, frankly, will probably be bloodier than the internet itself lashing out at us for being dead weight.

I’ve already basically moved into a Banana Republic — not the store, a country!— and I’m planning to keep heading south, “back in time,” over the coming years. Hopefully, that’ll let me die of natural causes somewhere nameless, too insignificant to even waste a nuke on before “it” or “we” prove the Terminator movies were more documentary than fiction.

Die Hard... J-D.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

the Terminator movies were more documentary than fiction.

Hey, didn't Sneaky Pete work on animation for The Terminator? Maybe all of us pedal steel players will get a pass when the Terminator age arrives.

[J D Sauser]

the Terminator movies were more documentary than fiction.

Hey, didn't Sneaky Pete work on animation for The Terminator? Maybe all of us pedal steel players will get a pass when the Terminator age arrives.

good luck with THAT joker card!... Maybe AI hates Sneaky Pete for his work?
I think AI, IF indeed it is or turns out "so smart" will soon hate all of humanity and quite certainly not make exceptions for the kind of folks who insist on annoying to world with loud "cat sounds".

Let's face it, we're toast... just played "I Just Destroyed The World (AGAIN!)" once too many for AI to not get the drift! ... J-D.

[George Biner]

what is your amp? can check schematic to answer these questions -- or, just try it out and see if it works