PA Disconnect

[Drew Pierce]

Not sure if this is the right topic for "Electronics", but the issue involves sound reinforcement. I have known for years that in live settings in larger venues, especially outdoors, your tone needs to be dialed up a lot brighter than you think. Simple reason: treble tones fade faster than bass. I always mic my amp into the PA and depend on the sound people to mix my sound accurately. Therein lies the catch. I recently played a show where some videos were taken. Upon viewing them the next day, I noted that my sound was not only weak in the overall mix volume-wise compared to the lead guitar, but was also really dark. Mushy might be a better description. I had noted some high end weakness at sound check and dialed up the highs substantially and pulled down the lows to compensate. When I set up in my practice room the next day, my sound was almost screechy high. Obviously, the sound man had mixed my channel both weak and dark. But I couldn't hear that in real time. From my seat in front of the amp, I thought it sounded pretty good throughout the show.

My question is have any of you had similar experiences and if so what did you do about it? Obviously having a person with an educated ear out in the room for informative feedback would be ideal, but that is rarely the case. Getting somebody to play your steel while you go out front and listen is also not a realistic option. Thanks in advance for any suggestions on this.
--Drew

[Howard Parker]

Set your tone the way you want to hear it on stage. Let the sound man deal with the front of house, including the mix balance and eq's.

h

[John De Maille]

Other than being the soundman and playing your steel, there's nothing you can really do. You could become friends with him and ask him to mix your sound accordingly, but, that rarely ever happens.
We're all at the mercy of the soundman.

[Dennis Detweiler]

Few sound men know how a steel is supposed to sound. A sound man can make you or break you. There's not much you can do. If he's mixing it into a monitor if front of you, you may get a better idea of what he's hearing in the mains.

[Fred Treece]

One possibility is that he was just a crappy sound guy. How did the rest of the mix in the video sound to you? Did anyone else in the band notice or say anything about you, or their own tone, or the overall mix?

Quality control of the band’s sound is in the band leader/music director’s job description. If it is a persistent problem and involves more than one sound guy, it’s worth having a chat with the boss, or even all the mates at next rehearsal. At the very least, you could request that the video in question not be posted on social media. If this was an isolated incident, probably just let it go.

[Tim Rose]

We travel with a festival size sound system...im the sound guy and the only sound check i get on the steel/guitar is the next day on youtube..

[Dave Grafe]

Set your tone the way you want to hear it on stage. Let the sound man deal with the front of house, including the mix balance and eq's.

h

That's all we've got, set your rig up to give you what you want to hear whole playing. If the sound mixer fails to live up to expectations it's par for the course, if they get it right it's exceptional. Same is true for audience members, they rarely know what they're listening to and no matter what the drummer's girlfriend still thinks the drums need to be louder and this gig is but a blip.

[Stephen Cowell]

Here's a big clue I learned the hard way... don't point your amp at the FOH guy... anywhere but. The farther from their ear you're pointed, the higher you are in the mix.

[Dave Grafe]

Here's a big clue I learned the hard way... don't point your amp at the FOH guy... anywhere but. The farther from their ear you're pointed, the higher you are in the mix.

Absolutely!

[Dave Mudgett]

Here's a big clue I learned the hard way... don't point your amp at the FOH guy... anywhere but. The farther from their ear you're pointed, the higher you are in the mix.

Bingo! I generally point as far away from the FOH sound guy as possible.

I try to keep my stage volume as low as possible, generally with an appropriate-size amp for the situation. Priceton or Deluxe Reverb is not that unusual, and can work fine if the house sound knows how to deal with it. But if I'm just getting buried, I'll pull out a set-it-on-stun amp. I always have a 4-pound, 200-Watt Quilter Tone Block head in my gig bag for emergencies. For example, if my primary amp has an issue, or it the FOH guy has no clue. Lately, I've been using a recently-acquired Milkman 85-Watt Pedal Steel Amp, which sounds great anywhere from 2.5 to the top, and it can get loud if necessary. I always start out as low as possible, but again, if FOH buries it, I can just turn it up to where it's heard with no problem. I think this is one of the reasons a lot of pedal steel players still like to carry really powerful amps.

[George Biner]

I've been a spectator at several big name (OK, medium name) shows, with touring bands -- I've often witness horrendous sound, with whole instruments not audible, with booming subwoofers making Americana artists sound like Kiss, background singers inaudible -- and I sat there and wondered, where is this band's road manager? or someone checking out the sound and telling the sound man to fix it? It's pretty sad.

You HAVE to have someone listening out there, or else as folks have said you are at their mercy.

[Mark Hepler]

Best sound ever was at DC's Reagan Center, judging by a recording. Went straight to PA: asked the sound guys for a 700K dip, flat treble, slight bass boost.

If sound techs mic your amp or use its balanced-out send, tell them to leave it FLAT! Most have never EQ'd a steel.